{"id":184,"date":"2022-08-20T07:40:00","date_gmt":"2022-08-20T14:40:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/?p=184"},"modified":"2022-10-03T06:45:41","modified_gmt":"2022-10-03T13:45:41","slug":"when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/","title":{"rendered":"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t<div data-elementor-type=\"wp-post\" data-elementor-id=\"184\" class=\"elementor elementor-184\" data-elementor-post-type=\"post\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-eb4cb84 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"eb4cb84\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-0fc4f32\" data-id=\"0fc4f32\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-e5ad1fc elementor-widget elementor-widget-html\" data-id=\"e5ad1fc\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"html.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<iframe title=\"When Markets Break Episode 2 | David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association\" allowtransparency=\"true\" style=\"border: none; min-width: min(100%, 430px);\" scrolling=\"no\" data-name=\"pb-iframe-player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.podbean.com\/player-v2\/?from=embed&i=sn7a8-12a2951-pb&share=1&download=1&fonts=Arial&skin=1&font-color=&rtl=0&logo_link=&btn-skin=c73a3a&size=150\" width=\"100%\" height=\"150\"><\/iframe>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-0ce4ad0 episode-info elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"0ce4ad0\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-c669c3d\" data-id=\"c669c3d\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-22182a6 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"22182a6\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>In this episode, SmarterMarkets\u2122 host David Greely welcomes David Gornall, the former Global Head of Precious Metals Trading at Natixis and Former Chairman of the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA).<\/p><p>Together, they discuss the massive dislocation between the gold markets in New York and London in March 2020 during the early days of the COVID-19 lockdown.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-2a4286b elementor-widget-divider--view-line elementor-widget elementor-widget-divider\" data-id=\"2a4286b\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"divider.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-divider\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-divider-separator\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-79726c1 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"79726c1\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"bb-theme-elementor-wrap bb-elementor-custom-color\">\t\t\t\t<p>Hosted By<\/p>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-ed7b17e elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"ed7b17e\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tDavid Greely\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-inner-section elementor-element elementor-element-45a8a0ee episode-qa elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"45a8a0ee\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-inner-column elementor-element elementor-element-7b955234\" data-id=\"7b955234\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-4032080 elementor-widget-divider--view-line elementor-widget elementor-widget-divider\" data-id=\"4032080\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"divider.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-divider\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-divider-separator\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-70a2fbeb elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"70a2fbeb\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Episode Q&A<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-9a8da28 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"9a8da28\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>The following Q&amp;A is created using slightly edited excerpts from the episode transcript, optimized for readability. <a href=\"http:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/SM83_DavidGornall_TranscriptFinal_20220907.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Download full transcript<\/a>.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-47c717b8 elementor-widget elementor-widget-accordion\" data-id=\"47c717b8\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"accordion.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1201\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"1\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1201\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">DG: Why is the price spread between London and New York important in the gold market? How big of a deal was it to market participants that it reached $60 or more per troy ounce?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1201\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"1\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1201\"><p>DG: Well, we should say that the new premium over London has always been a few cents and sometimes a few dollars an ounce. So for the market to move up to $67, this was a seismic move that the risk of this differential, or which we call the EFP, was modeled to be around a dollar, or say a dollar and half, and stress tested to around five. The other important aspect of the gold market is that the physical over-the-counter spot market is in London, and the futures market is in New York. What we\u2019ll see as a physical gold that\u2019s held in London, typically hedged with a short futures contract deliverable in New York. There are good reasons why this is the preferred hedge mechanism of a physical trader. First of all, the futures offer a price spread that\u2019s narrow, stable, and often yields a better forward contango than London OTC forwards. The exchange age also removes the OTC bilateral credit risk that an OTC trade carries, as the differential widens, anyone with a short hedge was getting squeezed. So the exchange margin calls would force banks to decide on whether to maintain the short, pay the margin and try and deliver or close out and pay the loss.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1202\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"2\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1202\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">DG: The COVID-19 pandemic was incredibly disruptive across markets in the global economy, but was there something particular about the market structure of the gold market that made it especially vulnerable to an event like this?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1202\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"2\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1202\"><p>To evaluate the vulnerability, we should define this part of the market structure as five risk factors. The location difference, which translates to your logistical risk. The size of the barrage you mentioned in each market &#8211; we call that the fungibility risk of metal. The next thing is expert physical trading knowledge. Then there are exchanges, internal position limits, and then you\u2019ve got the bank\u2019s own risk appetite and limit. So there are five things that all play out. At various times during this dislocation, at least one of these factors prevailing to affect the price. And that it\u2019s high, all five of them played a part in the story. One thing about the peculiarity of having a physical spot market in London and futures contract deliverable in London is this inter-deliverability factor.<\/p><p>The relocation of gold from predominantly Swiss refineries was prevented by a ban on passenger flights globally at the time. The other issue was the size of the bar. So in New York, it\u2019s a 100-ounce bar that\u2019s deliverable. Whereas the size of the bar traded in London is 400, and they\u2019re not into deliverable. Apart from the existing stock that sits on exchange, any new 100-ounce or kilo bar must be produced to order. So from a refiner\u2019s perspective, this is a just-in-time premium variety of gold, so you won\u2019t usually find them lying around in volts, waiting to be traded, and so there are about five refineries in Switzerland; there may be eight in total, globally that regularly cast and deliver eligible exchange bars. The other aspect of this was two types of participants in the market.<\/p><p>The physical trades largely trade both markets of London and New York separately, but they\u2019ll also trade both at the same time using an AFP, which is a single trade that simultaneously, in this example, buyers, futures, and sales London at a market rate that represents the price difference between the two. Then there are the financial electronic traders who trade fudges in New York and won\u2019t hedge by trading OTC London. In most cases, the financial futures traders weren\u2019t set up to trade the EFP with the OTC physical market. So when they were caught with shorter futures, they were only left with one option. They could only buy back their futures position on the exchange and thus driving the price higher. So physical hedges would normally close out their risk of London and New York by buying the EFP.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1203\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"3\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1203\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">Could you explain what an EFP is, the exchange for physical?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1203\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"3\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1203\"><p>It\u2019s a trade that simultaneously involves the purchase of the exchange in the sale of OTC or vice versa, at a rate differential in US dollars per ounce. So, you can buy the futures and sell the OTC in one trade or contract.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1204\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"4\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1204\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">So that would be the main way of playing between London and New York, in the context of the gold market?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1204\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"4\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1204\"><p>Yes, because it avoids leg lifting. So rather than having to go on and trade, if you have a physical trade, you are allowed to put it onto the exchange under the exchange rules. This means you can eliminate the risk between the two markets without going through two venues.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1205\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"5\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1205\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">And probably having to post collateral and margin on both?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1205\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"5\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1205\"><p>Yes. I mean, you\u2019re not going to remove the two sets of fees on it, but it\u2019s certainly removing the price differential risk that you\u2019re going to run while you decide whether you are going to do the futures or the OTC.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1206\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"6\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1206\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">Can you walk us through how that event was experienced in the markets?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1206\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"6\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1206\"><p>For most people sitting there, watching this unfold, there wasn\u2019t any correction; bid followed bid. So as the futures became bid and the prices rose, the electronic futures market makers chased the price higher. We\u2019ve talked about how the futures traders didn\u2019t use the EFP to liquidate their shorts. So if they did use the EFP, they wouldn\u2019t have chased it as high. However, the FP market did become a liquid and probably wouldn\u2019t help them in the end. But, the result was that the new futures prices rose much quicker than the London spot. As for the supply, without adjusting time, stock of hundred-ounce bars or kilo bars, and no refiner is open at the time to create them. The market was left traveling in one direction at a velocity.<\/p><p>If you had been fortunate enough to hold eligible material at one of the refineries, you could have thought you were in a better position, but then there were no flights. So one of the things that people don\u2019t really know about the gold market is that gold isn\u2019t moved around in a commercial way that is on freighters. They sit in the cargo hold of passenger aircraft. And if you\u2019re traveling between gold hub to gold hub, you may well be sitting on a pile of gold underneath you, and that\u2019s the way it\u2019s moved. So when that mode of transport dried up, so was the ability to deliver gold from hub to hub. And after that, when things reopened in the refineries, we had this mass of flight bookings.<\/p><p>And so we ran out of capacity because of how much gold fits on an aircraft. With many airlines not moving passengers around, they quickly turned these planes into cargo planes. I\u2019ve seen some pictures where they simply put them on the seats and stacked them neatly in places people usually would\u2019ve been, which helped alleviate some of the problems. But in reality, the banks got caught with the short hedge and the negative variation margins, which ranged between several hundred million and a billion, according to what they stated publicly, such as the size of their market losses. They were huge in magnitude, probably six to seven standard deviations away from any market risk model. So we can say it was a Black Swan event. It definitely undermined the ability to manage market price risk by using this method of futures hedging versus London gold holdings.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1207\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"7\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1207\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">If you were if you\u2019re a gold trader in London and you\u2019re trying to manage your risk properly by shorting futures in New York exchange, and suddenly, that price is bidding up away from you. So your risk management is the leading cause of your pain now, and there\u2019s no way to cover your short, because you can\u2019t get the hundred-ounce bars that you would need to deliver in New York. So you\u2019re stuck, and the price is chasing up away on you. How were the participants in London dealing with that?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1207\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"7\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1207\"><p>Once they\u2019d overcome the two of those five risks, you would\u2019ve thought then it was plain sailing after there. So then, we introduced the other three risks which are the risk models, and the knowledge or ability to deliver, those were the limits. We mentioned that some participants that had delivered gold in that delivery month, reached their exchange limit. So the exchange place a limit on what you can deliver during the active month. And you weren\u2019t allowed or able to make a second one. There were some exemptions permitted, but they weren\u2019t the norm. The second problem was overcoming those obstacles. Some of the traders had metal in the right place, on the right side of the Atlantic, had the position limits, and were about to pull the trigger.<\/p><p>And they were prevented from doing so by their risk managers, who said that this was creating more risk. And they were told to take the hedge off, move the goal back to an OTC vault, and don\u2019t put anymore onto the exchange. So whilst people have thought that they\u2019ve got the upper hand in this arbitrage, they hadn\u2019t quite got it. There was another frustrating one that hadn\u2019t been accustomed to delivering metal to exchange that; it\u2019s quite a nuanced process. And if you haven\u2019t done it before, you realize that you need an experienced person to complete the transfer efficiently in the timeframe allowed. Because no one\u2019s going to help you to figure it out in a short timeframe. So we have a perfect storm.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1208\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"8\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1208\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">I want to come back to the point about the risk management. So for you were saying for traders who had gold of the right size in New York who were under their position limits, they could have delivered it into exchange that was screaming for that it needed metal. What was the risk management thought process that said -  no, put it back in an OTC vault in New York? Or was it shipped back to London at that point?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1208\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"8\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1208\"><p>It was shipped back to London because of the model factor. There\u2019s always a number that a risk manager uses to say, what is fair value? So if you\u2019re going to measure this differential and it\u2019s only ever traded between $1 and $5 over the last 50 years, then that\u2019s the number you\u2019ll use. But if it throws out a $70 differential, it breaks all the dials on the dashboard. There\u2019s no way of resetting it. A lot of these models are looked at regressively and they look at it over a period of time. So once it breaks, it doesn\u2019t just break for that day or that month. It stays within the risk, sometime, for a year or two years thereafter until it levels out. It has some long term implications for the futures market.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1209\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"9\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1209\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">Outside of what was happening in gold, New York and London, were there other problems at the same time in the wider gold market or the wider, precious metals markets that had to be dealt with as well?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1209\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"9\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1209\"><p>Let\u2019s look at the wider gold market. It wasn\u2019t just London and New York that was affected by this. In China there was the largest discount ever seen to London. So from New Yorkit was monumental and the same was going on in India. You have to realize what the Western mantra is to hoard gold in times of turmoil. It\u2019s the rainy day fund. Whereas the Asians tend to use gold in that time. Where there is turmoil, they tend to dishold and then they go to cash. This was their rainy day, and so they\u2019re cashing out. And the opposite effect is happening. So you\u2019ve got massive discounts in China and India and didn\u2019t explore before somebody said why don\u2019t you just connect those two, they have to remain within the country. And that\u2019s probably one of the reasons why they went to an even deeper discount. In terms of broader, precious metals, we saw the same differentials occurring in silver and platinum, all the way down the supply chain to the coin market. We ended up around a hundred dollars premium. It wasn\u2019t just London, New York. That was just one example of how the dislocation happened.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-12010\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"10\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-12010\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">When you speak of the dislocations in the silver market, as an example, was that similar reasons for the gold market?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-12010\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"10\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-12010\"><p>It\u2019s not quite the same thing because the standards are very similar. You can move bars, but you don\u2019t put silver on an aircraft when it\u2019s $20 an ounce. Typically, you would ship silver by sea freight container and that\u2019s when you can find them. We\u2019ve all heard about the problems of supply chain management for a lack of vessels, a lack of containers and so silver got caught up in that very typical supply chain problem, even though the bars with the same size in London as they were in New York.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-12011\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"11\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-12011\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">What brought this event to a resolutio? Did it resolve of itself naturally over time? Or did participants regulators have to step in and sort things out?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-12011\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"11\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-12011\"><p>I think the answer to that was it happened in increments over a period of time. We\u2019ve got the active futures months. So it did take a few months to unwind and when gold did start to flow into exchange at the end, we actually saw temporarily a discount to London, but that didn\u2019t last very long. The answer is that it did resolve itself, as the four of the five main risks became manageable. Did the regulators get involve? Not really. CME is a self-regulatory organization and they were creating another delivery point in London for 400 ounce bars, but that contract was new and it wasn\u2019t inter deliverable with the hundred ounce liquid futures contract, so it really didn\u2019t have too much of an effect. Together, the traders and the risk managers thought it was more prudent to keep some gold in New York from now on. Certainly it\u2019s the case when some traders keep more gold in New York than they ever did before.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-12012\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"12\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-12012\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">Did this leave a lasting impression on traders and risk managers behavior? Did that changed some of those dynamics about how the gold traders, in London, hedge their risk and how they think about that?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-12012\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"12\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-12012\"><p>Risk managers have longer memories than traders do. I think the traders were looking forward to getting back on the horse and do business as usual, but the risk manager\u2019s never going to let them forget it. So the answer is that there\u2019s a lot more prudence involved in managing those risks and positions. Many people did question this whole structure of the market and how it came to be and it led people to think about how to build a more fungible global system of liquidity, not just one in London, but in multiple delivery points. But as the market corrected itself, a lot of people lost interest in trying to find a long term resolution, it was just too hard to do. That idea got put on the back burner. Will it come back again? Maybe.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-12013\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"13\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-12013\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">How vulnerable do you see the gold market being to this sort of thing happening again?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-12013\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"13\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-12013\"><p>The two things I\u2019ve noticed, aside from the reduction in limits, was the greater use of forward London hedging. Whilst some believe that the futures is a much more efficient way of hedging because of its liquidity, simplicity and lack of counterparty risk. The alternative way was to go back to OTC forward hedging, that\u2019s what we\u2019ve seen when we look at the trade data. The 6 million ounce daily average of forwards and swaps on gold in London, after this event, became 10 million and it remained 10 million. I think, it\u2019s still the same today and it had peaks of 15, 20 million ounce. What it means is that the system of using futures to hedge physical isn\u2019t as widely used as it was before the dislocation event.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-12014\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"14\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-12014\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-long-arrow-alt-up\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">When you look to the future, what do you see as a more robust way of building the gold market? What do you think you would change if you could?<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-12014\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"14\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-12014\"><p>It\u2019s not for one person to say what they would change, it\u2019s for one person to listen to what everybody else would like to see. I think people would like to see a bigger and more developed gold market. I think they\u2019d like to see the local centers being more included rather than acting as outlying hubs. The synergy is a global market rather than having outliers, and you\u2019ll get more connectivity, you pull more liquidity, and that\u2019s what everybody wants at the end of the day. Nobody wants to deal in a pool of liquidity that evaporates as this differential did in 2020. The deepest pool of liquidity will always win. It\u2019s really up to the users of the market to come up and design their own future proof system that allows everybody to have access and to remove some of the barriers that we\u2019ve seen in these examples, that can be very disruptive to the market.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this episode, SmarterMarkets\u2122 host David Greely welcomes David Gornall, the former Global Head of Precious Metals Trading at Natixis and Former Chairman of the&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":215,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"pmpro_default_level":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[83,74],"tags":[40,94,95],"class_list":["post-184","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-episode","category-when-markets-break","tag-gold","tag-market-events","tag-risk-management","pmpro-has-access"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v24.8.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association - SmarterMarkets\u2122<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association - SmarterMarkets\u2122\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"In this episode, SmarterMarkets\u2122 host David Greely welcomes David Gornall, the former Global Head of Precious Metals Trading at Natixis and Former Chairman of the&hellip;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"SmarterMarkets\u2122\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2022-08-20T14:40:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2022-10-03T13:45:41+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1920\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"1080\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Hector Aranda\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:image\" content=\"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Hector Aranda\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"14 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Hector Aranda\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#\/schema\/person\/ba193b4532a5fdbd8e0f8df1f7460ce0\"},\"headline\":\"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association\",\"datePublished\":\"2022-08-20T14:40:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2022-10-03T13:45:41+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/\"},\"wordCount\":3077,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png\",\"keywords\":[\"Gold\",\"Market Events\",\"Risk Management\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Episode\",\"When Markets Break\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/\",\"name\":\"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association - SmarterMarkets\u2122\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png\",\"datePublished\":\"2022-08-20T14:40:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2022-10-03T13:45:41+00:00\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png\",\"width\":1920,\"height\":1080},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/\",\"name\":\"SmarterMarkets\u2122\",\"description\":\"\",\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#organization\"},\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Organization\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#organization\",\"name\":\"SmarterMarkets\u2122\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/\",\"logo\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-logo-wordtype.svg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-logo-wordtype.svg\",\"width\":904,\"height\":560,\"caption\":\"SmarterMarkets\u2122\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\"}},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#\/schema\/person\/ba193b4532a5fdbd8e0f8df1f7460ce0\",\"name\":\"Hector Aranda\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/author\/sm-masteradmin\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association - SmarterMarkets\u2122","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association - SmarterMarkets\u2122","og_description":"In this episode, SmarterMarkets\u2122 host David Greely welcomes David Gornall, the former Global Head of Precious Metals Trading at Natixis and Former Chairman of the&hellip;","og_url":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/","og_site_name":"SmarterMarkets\u2122","article_published_time":"2022-08-20T14:40:00+00:00","article_modified_time":"2022-10-03T13:45:41+00:00","og_image":[{"width":1920,"height":1080,"url":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png","type":"image\/png"}],"author":"Hector Aranda","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_image":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Hector Aranda","Est. reading time":"14 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Article","@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#article","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/"},"author":{"name":"Hector Aranda","@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#\/schema\/person\/ba193b4532a5fdbd8e0f8df1f7460ce0"},"headline":"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association","datePublished":"2022-08-20T14:40:00+00:00","dateModified":"2022-10-03T13:45:41+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/"},"wordCount":3077,"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#organization"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png","keywords":["Gold","Market Events","Risk Management"],"articleSection":["Episode","When Markets Break"],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/","url":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/","name":"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association - SmarterMarkets\u2122","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png","datePublished":"2022-08-20T14:40:00+00:00","dateModified":"2022-10-03T13:45:41+00:00","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-s13e02-david-gornall.png","width":1920,"height":1080},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/when-markets-break-episode-2-david-gornall\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"David Gornall, Former Chairman, LBMA London Bullion Market Association"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#website","url":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/","name":"SmarterMarkets\u2122","description":"","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#organization","name":"SmarterMarkets\u2122","url":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-logo-wordtype.svg","contentUrl":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/08\/smarter-markets-img-logo-wordtype.svg","width":904,"height":560,"caption":"SmarterMarkets\u2122"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"}},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/smartermarkets.media\/#\/schema\/person\/ba193b4532a5fdbd8e0f8df1f7460ce0","name":"Hector Aranda","sameAs":["https:\/\/smartermarkets.media"],"url":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/author\/sm-masteradmin\/"}]}},"comments_count":"0","content_native":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/posts\/184","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=184"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/posts\/184\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1143,"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/posts\/184\/revisions\/1143"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/media\/215"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=184"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=184"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.smartermarkets.media\/fnDBKpShC6\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=184"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}